Comptes dormants ; expropriations par l’Etat… : les explications détaillées d’un Expert… Un véritable cours en Finances à conserver

Economie

Le Gouvernement ivoirien veut mettre la main sur les comptes bancaires qui n’ont pas connu de mouvement depuis plus de dix (10) ans ? En a-t-il le droit ? Comment cela se passe ? Selon quelle procédure ? Un Expert financier qui requis l’anonymat pour raison de sécurité, apporte toute la lumière.

L’Expert financier

C’est un décret qui a été pris en 2014, ce n’est donc pas nouveau. Dans les pays où existent ce qu’on appelle les Caisses de dépôts et de consignations, les Etats utilisent ce type de structures pour que les fonds qui sont « sans propriétaires » puissent y être centralisés de manière à profiter à la communauté. Donc, dans les relations à la fois civiles et commerciales, l’un des critères qu’il faut avoir à l’esprit, c’est le mouvement, c’est la vie, en fait.

Si vous détenez un compte quelque part, pour montrer que ça vit, vous devez faire des mouvements dessus, même si c’est pour déposer 2 ou 3 francs dessus chaque fois pour, au moins montrer que le compte vit. Mais à partir du moment où le compte ne vit pas, le banquier ne peut pas être propriétaire de votre argent. Mais la collectivité qui est représentée par l’Etat, peut, au bout d’un certain temps – ici (Côte d’Ivoire) on a fixé 10 ans -, devenir propriétaire de cet argent qui ne vous sert pas. C’est cela, l’idée, c’est cela, le message derrière l’opération.

Ce n’est pas de l’expropriation. Vous avez quelque chose, mais vous-mêmes n’en avez pas besoin, alors que la collectivité peut s’en servir. Donc, on se dit pour nous montrer que vous en avez encore besoin, il faut, au moins, que de temps en temps, vous fassiez une opération dessus. Mais si vous ne faites rien du tout, dans  certains pays, c’est trois (3) ans, dans d’autres, c’est sept (7) ans. Mais ici, on a mis dix (10) ans parce qu’il fallait donner un peu de temps aux gens. C’est donc cela, le principe.

L’EXEMPLE DE L’ACHAT OU DE LA VENTE A CREDIT

Ce n’est pas une expropriation. Ça veut dire que vous, votre compte est à la banque, vous avez fait une opération dessus il y a deux ans ou trois ans, vous n’avez pas de souci à vous faire, la collectivité n’ira pas prendre votre argent. Un exemple : si vous faites un achat à crédit, cela signifie que vous devez au vendeur. Mais si au bout d’un an, de deux ans, de trois ans, il ne vous réclame pas son dû, il ne fait rien du tout pour montrer que son argent l’intéresse, s’il n’a rien fait pendant dix (10) ans (aucune relance, aucun SMS, aucune action, rien du tout), on considère que vous ne lui devez plus. On considère qu’en fait, son argent ne l’intéresse pas.

C’est cela, l’idée qui est derrière cette opération que l’Etat veut faire, pour laquelle, il a pris de disposition depuis 2014. Donc, ce qu’on va mettre en œuvre maintenant, son dispositif réglementaire existe depuis 2014. Parce que l’Etat a maintenant une structure qui peut recevoir ces fonds, c’est la Caisse de dépôts et consignations.

LE CAS DES COMPTES GELES

Si l’Etat a gelé votre compte, c’est qu’il vous a rendu incapable d’accéder à votre compte. En ce moment-là, on est en droit commun. Cela veut dire vous avez été rendu incapable de manifester votre volonté, par conséquent, on ne peut pas vous reprocher de n’avoir pas voulu faire des mouvements sur votre compte. L’Etat a produit un document pour signifier qu’il a gelé votre compte… Normalement, s’il a produit un document pour geler votre compte, le fait qu’il l’ait gelé, ne le rend pas propriétaire de votre argent. Il ne peut donc pas s’en approprier. Il ne devrait pas, puisque le fait d’avoir gelé votre compte ne le rend pas propriétaire. S’il avait dit : Je prends un papier pour  vous exproprier, ce n’est pas la même chose. Le gel et l’expropriation, sont deux choses différentes.

A la limite, on peut dire, cela a été une mesure conservatoire (politique ou autre chose). Monsieur Séhoué avait de l’argent, donc on ne veut pas qu’il nous cherche noise, alors à la limite, on l’assèche, on gèle ses avoirs, on lui interdit de pouvoir en user. Mais interdire à monsieur Séhoué de pouvoir utiliser son argent ne nous rend pas propriétaire de l’argent de monsieur Séhoué. A la limite, si monsieur Séhoué intente un procès, gagne son procès, on lève le gel, il a, à nouveau, le droit d’utiliser son argent. On ne peut donc pas avoir normalement une disposition particulière sur cela, sur ce texte.

Votre argent ne sera plus votre argent que si et seulement si…

Je veux dire, on ne peut pas dire : on a gelé votre compte…  on est en 2021, depuis 2011, vous n’avez pas eu accès à votre argent, donc, on considère que votre argent ne vous appartient pas… A priori, c’est incompréhensible. Parce que vous allez rétorquez en disant : je ne vous ai pas dit que je ne voulais plus de mon argent ! C’est vous qui m’avez interdit l’accès à mon argent.

Donc tant qu’on n’a pas géré ce dossier pour voir si vous aviez raison de m’interdire, pour voir si j’étais désireux de ne plus avoir mon argent, vous ne pouvez pas vous en approprier. Vous ne devriez pas être capables de vous approprier mon argent, normalement !

L’EXEMBLE DE L’IMMOBILIER

En tout état de cause, en droit, on ne devrait pas dire que le gel signifie, au bout de dix ans, la faculté pour l’Etat d’être propriétaire de l’argent gelé. C’est un fait du Prince que de dire : on a gelé l’argent de monsieur Séhoué. L’Etat a décidé qu’il vous interdit de toucher à votre argent. Mais s’il peut décider cela, il n’est pas pour autant propriétaire de votre argent. La preuve, quand je ramène cela sur le terrain de l’immobilier, vous avez votre maison, on dit que votre maison est située là où on va réaliser ou faire passer un ouvrage d’utilité publique. Que va-t-il se passer ? L’Etat prend l’espace,  mais comme votre maison était là, l’Etat vous dédommage. Parce qu’il reconnait votre propriété sur l’ouvrage, sur la maison, sur le terrain. Mais pour la communauté, on a besoin de ce terrain. Donc en vous expropriant, on vous dédommage.

L’EXEMPLE DE LA FRANCE

C’est la même logique qui est derrière les comptes. On ne peut pas dire les comptes qui ont été gelés deviennent d’autorité des propriétés de l’Etat. Parce que la logique que j’ai décrite dès le début, ce n’est pas un gel d’autorité. C’est vous, monsieur Séhoué, qui avez tellement d’argent que, vous avez un compte quelque part, vous n’avez fait aucune opération dessus. Ça, c’est juste pour vous donner un exemple. Ce que je décris là, ne se passe pas qu’en Côte d’Ivoire.

Moi, j’ai ouvert un compte à mes enfants en France. Je n’ai fait aucune opération dessus depuis des lustres. J’ai reçu un document en début d’année pour dire que, si dans six mois, je ne fais aucune action dessus, ce compte-là va être viré à la Caisse de dépôts et consignations. C’est la même logique. Mais l’Etat français ne peut pas faire autre chose que me dire « monsieur, si d’ici à six mois, vous n’avez rien fait, on va se retrouver dans la situation que votre argent ne sera plus à vous, parce qu’on considère que ça ne vous intéresse pas ; on va envoyer ça à la Caisse de dépôts et consignations pour que ça profite à tous les Français ».

Mais si, ce n’était pas un acte de volonté pour dire, à la limite, j’ai d’autres choses à faire, je ne vais pas envoyer de l’argent en France et compagnie, cet argent est là. Tant que le délai prescrit par leur législation n’est pas atteint, mon argent m’appartient. Mais si on dit on a gelé d’autorité, çà, c’est un autre débat.

LE CAS OU LE PROPRIETAIRE DU COMPTE EST MORT ENTRE-TEMPS : QUE FONT LES HERITIRES ?

Si vous êtes mort, les enfants ne savent pas que vous avez un compte. Cela fait dix ans donc, ils ne font rien dessus parce qu’ils ne savent pas. C’est pour cela que depuis quelques jours, des listes des comptes dormants (les noms des propriétaires) sont publiés. Donc, si cette personne avait un compte à la BICICI, elle n’a rien fait dessus, normalement, depuis quelques jours, il y a une liste de comptes dormants qui apparait, on voit le nom de Koffi Kouadio Pierre, avec un million dessus. Si vous, qui êtes l’enfant de Koffi Kouadio Pierre, vous reconnaissez le nom, vous voyez qu’il y a un million dessus, vous ne vous levez pas comme ça pour aller à la banque pour dire : je suis l’enfant de Koffi Kouadio Pierre. Eux, comment feraient-ils pour le savoir ? Si vous, vous avez la possibilité de montrer que vous êtes l’héritier du Koffi Kouadio Pierre en question, vous y allez. Et c’est le juge qui doit vous donner ce papier qui établit que vous êtes bien l’enfant de Koffi Kouadio Pierre, pouvez, sur la base de liste, aller dire que « je ne savais pas que mon papa avait un compte ici parce que je suis son héritier ».

C’est pour cela qu’on vous prévient. On est en mars, moi, j’ai été prévenu depuis fin novembre que, si je ne fais rien, dans les six mois, le compte de mes enfants dont je vous parle va être transféré. Donc, à la limite, on doit être dans un certain délai de l’échéance. Donc, on informe les gens : voici les comptes dormants qu’on a identifiés. Si on n’a aucune action dessus dans les trois mois ou dans les six mois (je n’en sais rien), ça va être transféré. On va considérer qu’on enlève ces comptes-là des livres des banques commerciales, des livres des micro-finances et compagnies, et on va transférer cela pour la collectivité, dans les livres de la Caisse de dépôts et consignations. Dès lors, le propriétaire ne serait plus le propriétaire décédé ou ses ayants-droits, mais le propriétaire serait l’Etat, c’est-à-dire nous tous. C’est cela, l’idée.

UN PRETEXTE POUR DES REGLEMENTS DE COMPTES POLITIQUES ?

L’affaire n’est donc pas politique. A la limite, je veux dire le politique ne peut pas se prévaloir de cela pour aller prendre les comptes des gens, les comptes qui ont été gelés. Ça ne peut pas être un argument, parce que le gel, c’est une décision d’autorité, pour dire : vous, si on vous laisse avec de l’argent, vous pouvez être une menace, donc on gèle votre compte. Ce n’est pas la même chose.

LE CAS DES COMPTES DEGELES MAIS VIDES PENDANT LEUR GEL

« Le banquier doit vous expliquer où est parti votre argent »

On reste sur le terrain du droit. Imaginons que votre compte, dont vous connaissez la situation le jour du gel… Par exemple, vous et votre banquier, vous savez qu’on a gelé votre le compte le 31 novembre 2011. Et il y avait un million exactement sur votre compte. Le gel vous interdisait d’y accéder. Quand vous arrivez, sept ans après, en 2018, vous, vous vous attendez à aller trouver votre compte, avec un million. Si c’est un compte d’épargne, il aura produit des intérêts, si c’est un compte courant, il n’aura pas produit des intérêts, au contraire, il aura subi des agios. Puisque le banquier qui gère votre compte, vous lui payez des agios, c’est à peu-près 5000 F chaque mois. Donc, quand vous arrivez sept ans après, vous vous attendez à votre million moins les agios que vous avez dû payer. Mais vous arrivez et que votre compte est à zéro, alors que vous-mêmes, vous n’y aviez pas accès, le banquier doit vous expliquer où est parti votre argent. C’est tout. Parce que c’est votre compte. Sauf à l’Etat de prouver que le million qui était sur votre compte n’était pas votre argent, il ne peut pas s’en approprier sans votre avis.

PROCES CONTRE LE BANQUIER

Le banquier a reçu un document, un commandement de non-opération, pour lui dire : il faut geler le compte de monsieur Séhoué ; il faut interdire l’accès à monsieur Séhoué  à son compte. Mais le gel, ce courrier que le banquier reçoit ne peut pas lui dire : transfère-moi l’argent de monsieur Séhoué, non. Parce que le banquier, de son propre chef, ne peut pas se permettre de transférer votre argent à quelqu’un d’autre sans votre avis. Autrement, il reconstitue les faits à ses frais, il remet l’argent à sa place quand vous le demandez.

Donc, vous avez le papier qui dit que votre compte est dégelé, que vous avez à nouveau accès à votre compte, ce qui ne doit pas être dans votre compte, ce sont les frais que le banquier a dû prélever, parce que c’était normal qu’il les prélève. Mais plus cette réserve-là, même si vous aviez plus que le montant à prélever par le banquier, la différence, il doit la mettre à votre disposition, c’est votre argent. Maintenant si cette différence est zéro, le banquier doit vous expliquer comment il est passé de un million à zéro. Si l’Etat est passé dans votre dos pour aller prendre votre argent, le banquier doit s’expliquer. Il doit vous dire : j’ai reçu un commandement de payer… Et vous : bon, mais comment cela se fait-il que vous ne m’avez pas tenu informé ? Peut-être que j’aurais pu m’opposer à cela… Donc vous engagez le procès contre le banquier… parce que vous n’allez pas attaquer directement l’Etat. Vous attaquez celui qui a pris votre argent pour le donner à l’Etat, éventuellement. Les choses sont très claires, on n’est pas dans la jungle.

Interview réalisée par

Germain Séhoué

gs05895444@yahoo.fr

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